Interview with BUD CARTER

by Sam Swan on March 21, 1996

at CARTER STEEL GUITARS
617 West Kearney Street, Suite 101
Mesquite, Texas 75149 USA

On a bright Spring day in March of 1996, I arrived at Carter Steel Guitars' [Factory] to interview Bud Carter. Bud and John Fabian were there to meet with me. After showing me around and explaining how a Carter Steel Guitar is built and assembled, we sat down to talk about Bud's experiences in the steel guitar industry over the years and his latest venture in steel guitar manufacturing and design: the Carter Steel Guitar. Since March of 1996, I interviewed Bud a few more times by telephone so as to bring you the most up-to-date Carter news items possible. Here's what Bud had to say in these interviews:

What is your background in playing steel guitars?

My first professional job playing steel was in 1947 or 1948. It was a dance job in Missouri with "Warren and His Hoe Down Boys". I was supposed to be the guitar player, but another guy had a guitar, so I picked up a little lap steel and started playing that. It was an Electra-Muse 6-string.

Was learning a struggle for you, or did you come by it naturally?

It really wasn't what I'd call a struggle, but I didn't know yet how to tune that 6-string. So, I kept playing with it until I got to C6th, but I didn't know what I was tuning it to. I just got more out of it that way.

What players have had the most influence on your playing?

I listen to them all! I've gotten something from every one of them. Buddy Emmons, now I love his playing, but I can't play like him. Everything he does is so well thought out. And John Hughey, but he's different, too. Session work has greatly influenced my playing. And Paul Franklin does nice stuff. Most of the good players have excellent ideas, but seldom get a chance to use them. But when they get the chance, it sounds so much better than what's often recorded today.

What kind of music do you listen to, and how has your musical taste changed over the years?

Personally, I like good swing. What I mean by swing is I like western swing and swing like Benny Goodman, Arty Shaw, and all those big bands. And, I love country too. Good country. To me, much of what is currently being recorded is more light rock than it is country.

I see that in 1985 you received this Plaque from the Texas Steel Guitar Hall of Fame. Wasn't that the first year they presented those?

Yes, I was and am still very honored to be the first recipient ...

When did you start building guitars?

(John Fabian, Bud's partner, laughs and asks Bud jokingly: "When did they make the first wire coat hanger, Bud?") I made, what I consider to be, my first commercial guitar in 1964 -- about 32 years ago -- when I came to Texas. I played around with junk beforehand. This was before MSA was even getting off the ground. Tom Morrell and Maurice Anderson were here in Texas, and I stopped off for a day or two on my way to California. Well, I never left.

Would you say you are mechanically gifted?

I do not know about the gifted part ... however, I have learned from my experiences. I was a mechanic for General Motors for 8 years. Then I was an instructor in engine and transmission repair.

Has your playing style changed since you came out with the CARTER Steel Guitar?

It sure has. Some people do not understand that the more you play, the better the guitar has to be. And the better the guitar gets, the more it influences your playing because you can play things that you previously could not play. People are limited to what they can play because a guitar will not do what they need it to do. That is what has helped me playing-wise, as well as building-wise. So the better the guitar gets, the more I can develop my playing.

Is your guitar a universal or strictly a 6th?

The Carter, which I play, is a B- flat 6th S-12. From that tuning, I can get most of the country sounds you've ever heard, in addition to all the pop and swing sounds. Bud plays at the Knoxville show.

What's your pedal and knee lever setup, and what advantages does this provide?

This is so simple that some people can't believe it. I get asked this a lot at shows, especially "Is that an Emmons setup?" Not even close! I use a B-flat tuning on the 12-string. The setup is so simple, it surprises most people. You can check out my tuning on our Web Site on the Internet (address: http://www.steelguitar.com).

Have you experimented with the universal tuning?

I played around with it 20 years ago and it is still essentially the same as it was then. I decided that I just didn't need all that stuff. The open tuning is not nearly as important to me as knowing my pulls and what that does to the neck. What it boils down to is playing the guitar, not playing a tuning. Often, players get on a universal and they're thinking 2 necks. That's detrimental to playing. And, I feel very strongly that a lock should not ever be put on a pedal steel guitar. It's vital to be able to move in and out of the tunings. The key is not to think about the tunings, but rather to "think guitar", period.

What is the future for the 6th tuning?

There's a minor rebirth happening as evidenced by Paul Franklin on some of George Strait's albums. Of course, the instructional materials available have helped, too. A lot of players are going back to the real roots of music, and they want the fullness that a 6th tuning can provide. The universal E9th/B6th tuning has helped a lot of players experiment, also. I do not think the 6th tuning ever will be as popular as the E9th, but it is far from being obsolete.

Do you play many "live" gigs?

I used to work five nights a week. Now, I play mainly on weekends. When I do, I use a Gallien-Krueger power amp with a 15" Black Widow in the cabinet or a Peavey Vegas 400. Some players are starting to move to 12" speakers, which are good for certain situations. I prefer the tone I get with a 15" speaker.

Do you have time to practice?

Yes, I have to! I like to spend at least a half-hour a day. Two hours is better. I like to maintain a certain level.

Do Texas players have their own style?

Oh yes. The steel players in Texas pick their own style. Everybody's influenced by others, but they add their own feelings to it. Most of the Texas players, whether they realize it or not, have a swing flavor to their playing. It's natural.

What kind of bar do you use?

Ernie Ball, I believe. Plus, I have a George L's that's a little heavier. They're both 7/8" and regular 10-string length.

What effects do you incorporate "live" and in the studio?

I use a Quadraverb for "live" work. In the studio, I don't use anything and let them put it on at the board.

What advice do you have for beginners?

Practice. I'll bet you've heard that one before! And, listen to everybody. Everyone, I don't care who they are, is going to play something you'll like or something you've been looking for.

What's your opinion on all the courses and tablature out there on the market today?

Most of the ones I've seen are great, but some are way too advanced for someone just starting out.

How important is it to read music?

I read music, mainly for learning new material. I learn a lot faster just by playing it, especially with a band, unless it's a big band. Then, reading becomes extremely important.

What are some mistakes or bad habits you've noticed with all players, experienced and beginners?

Now, what a lot of people call bad habits may not necessarily be bad habits. That might be the only way a person can do something. I know I do some things that might not be conventional, but it's just how I play. The idea is to make music and to develop your technique, as well. If a person is happy with their playing and the band is happy, that's all that truly matters.

What sets the Carter Steel Guitar apart from the other professional-level steel guitars on the market?

Without getting into a lot of proprietary things, I think weight would be the first thing that comes to mind. And, we have not skimped on anything. Our materials and workmanship are as fine as anything out there. And the Carter has a "cleaner" sound. It is fairly demanding, in that the knee lever action and pedal action are both so precise. It'll make a person clean up their act! I haven't looked at the prices lately, but I believe another difference still is price ... we offer professional-model steels for very affordable prices ... Again, I don't know how many other steels come with these, but every Carter comes with an Owner's Manual and our commitment to Customer Service ....
Carter Steel Guitars' Customer Showroom

What models does the Carter come in?

We build a D-10, an S-12, an S-10, and S-10 on D-10 Body with Pad, ... how many is that? 4 standard models. And, now we have available on a Custom basis: both an S-12 on D-10 Body with Pad and a D-12 ... that's right, a 40-pound double-12 (61 pounds in the case). Each model we have added has been in response to the demand of our customers and prospective customers.

What pickups come standard on the Carter?

George L's: E-66 on the 10-string E9th neck and 10-1 on the C6th. On the 12-string models, we use a 12-1. We've found these to be optimal for the range of strings used. If someone wants something different, that's no problem. We also offer George L's new Traditional Premium Pole Piece and Bill Lawrence's new pickups.

Are Carter Steel Guitars easy to expand and modify?

It's a "piece of cake". The Carter is designed to be extremely easy and simple. Easy modifications are mandatory for us. We are constantly doing research and development to improve our products. Under the "hood" of a Carter.

Have you made any changes to the Carter since you first started?

Yes, even recently we made a huge leap in technology so that the playability, sound, and tone of the Carter have improved yet again ... we are constantly looking for ways to make the Carter better, more fun to play, easier to maintain, with the best sound, tone and sustain possible.

Have you changed the design of the Carter over the years in response to suggestions from your customers?

Yes. We greatly value our customers' opinions and ideas. We have so many people, who make their living playing steel, come to visit us and provide us with valuable feedback. We've had a lot of great, practical suggestions. Our customers are the ones who have to live with this guitar. Pedal steel guitars cost a lot of money. We want each Carter owner to be satisfied. I really appreciate honesty when it comes to customer feedback. We do a lot of things well, but reading minds is not one of them (Bud smiles). Our customers' feedback is key around here. There's no way we can continue to improve our guitars unless our customers keep telling us their thoughts and experiences.

How long does it take, start to finish, to build a complete Carter?

We give the customer their choice as to the Color of the body. As for the body itself: a mica-covered hard-rock maple body takes about 3 days and a lacquer-finished body takes about 3 weeks. Then, there is assembly time of a day or so, depending upon the production schedule at that moment. Typically, when we receive an order, a Carter will be shipped within about 2-1/2 weeks and we guarantee that we will ship every standard model ordered within 30 days.

How many employees are involved in building the Carter?

Three: John Fabian, Ann Fabian, and me. All of our manufacturing is contracted out (some of it to large companies) which gives us the consistent quality we want, plus the added flexibility of easily expanding our build rate. Also people, such as Junior Knight, are kind enough to test changes and improvements for us and report what they like and don't like.

By the way, how is Junior Knight these days? What is he doing?

He is on the road with "LeAnn Rimes" currently -- and appeared on the "David Letterman Show " and the "Grand Old Opry" in early September 1996.

Has the business increased dramatically since you began building steel guitars?

Yes! We've just about doubled our sales volume every year since we opened our doors in 1992.

You mentioned that you contract out your manufacturing. Is that how you manage to keep your prices so low for a professional-level steel?

Yes, that helps a lot and also we give a lot of attention to the details! We definitely work very hard in the cost-reduction area by shopping for the best prices on all of our parts, supplies, and other costs, while keeping our standard of high quality. Also, avoiding large discounts to dealers and "celebrity give-away programs" helps keep the cost down quite a bit. And, not having to purchase machines to make every part keeps parts' prices lower, while still guaranteeing the most important aspect of the building process: that each Carter built is a high-quality, professional-level steel.

Do you have any price increases planned in the near future?

As you know, our prices have been the same since we opened our doors in 1992 ... that is something we are quite proud of and something we feel has helped more players afford a professional-level steel. Unfortunately, with the new minimum wage law (which has already begun rippling through the prices we pay for parts and supplies) and with the new gross-receipts tax (which Texas may start imposing upon businesses soon), we may very well have to raise our prices within the next 6 months or so. If we can avoid that, however, believe me: we will! We are committed to keeping our prices as low as possible so that as many people who want to own a professional-level steel can do so ... including beginners! Please assure your readers that if we do this, we will announce it ahead of time -- maybe 2 months or so ahead of time.

Which road bands have a Carter player in them at this time?

Well, I may have lost track by now ... let's see: Junior Knight is playing with"LeAnn Rimes ", Rusty Young is playing with both "Poco " and "Sky Kings ", Bobby Black is playing with both the "California Cowboys " and "Don Burnham & the Lost Weekend Band ", Wayne Steppy is playing with "Del Rio ", Mike Auldridge is playing with "Chesapeake ", John Gettes is playing with "Leandro " ... that's all of the ones I can think of at this moment. There's probably more ...

Is it difficult to maintain consistency from one guitar to another as far as tone?

No, not at all. We have a '65 push-pull Emmons sitting over there in the case. It is one of our measuring sticks. I guarantee that you can go into the other room while I am alternating between playing the push-pull and the Carter, and you cannot tell the difference. We've spent a lot of time concentrating on consistency and repeatability. It has really paid off.

What percentage of Carters sold are single-neck, double-neck, and universal? Do you see a trend emerging on the above?

About 70% are D-10's, 15% S-10's, and 15% universals, some of which have really unusual tunings. As far as trends, things have stayed pretty much the same. Some people with back problems are looking more at the S-12, but our D-10 weighs less than most manufacturers' S-12's.

What percentage of Carters are sold outside the U.S.?

Actually about 30%, about half of which go to Canada. Interestingly, this percentage has remained about the same for the last 20 or more years.

What are the most popular additions/modifications to the Carter's Standard 8-Pedal and 5-Knee-Lever setup? Has this changed over the years?

The most common addition would be 1 or 2 knee levers on the C6th neck. Buddy Emmons plays with 7 knee levers and his tablature is set up for 7, so that's pretty common. I have not really seen a major trend occurring over the years. Our pricing also allows players to choose additional pedals and knee levers. Since we can deliver a Carter D-10 with 8 Pedals and 5 Knee Levers for under $2,500, that has an effect on the person buying the Carter. Pricing and its effect on demand are very interesting. Since a pedal steel guitar is far from an impulse purchase, many of our customers spend quite a bit of time figuring out exactly what they want.

Do mica guitars sound different than those with a lacquer finish?

Yes. A lacquer-finished guitar has a softer tone. A mica guitar has more "kick" to it. These are not huge differences in tone. The difference is very subtle. However, you can hear it when they're side by side.

Does the color of the body have an impact on the player?

I believe so. Personally, I like a black guitar. When I sit down to play, all I want to see are those strings, nothing else. Black has always been our most popular color. Our second most popular color is a Black top with Ebony Birdseye aprons (in front and back). This combination is especially popular on the West Coast of the U.S. Burgundy is our third most popular color. Our other standard colors are about equal in their popularity: Red, Navy Blue, Bright Blue, Turquoise, and Black Pearlwood.

When did you launch your multi-page Web Site on the Internet? What kind of responses have you received?

In June of 1996, we launched Carter Steel Guitars' Web Site ... we are very happy with it. Actually, it is designed and maintained by some of our own staff: John and Ann Fabian. Many people seem to enjoy visiting our Web Site and have told us they have learned a lot from the "Ask Bud!" columns posted there and the resources pages we created.

What else is on your Web Site?

Well, as I mentioned, we have several resources pages, which have information for beginning players all the way through professional level, information on shows we plan to attend, prices, photos, and features of the Carter, a map to our factory/showroom ... Oh, and one thing, which has been growing almost weekly, is: a "Teachers' web page";, which lists steel guitar teachers who have video, tablature, and/or "live" lessons available. In fact, please invite your readers to contact us they know of any teachers not listed there ... anywhere in the world!

Any changes to your Web Site since you first launched it?

Well, we have added a photo album of June Jam '96 with 20 or so photos, some sound files, and we have a few things planned as surprises over the months to come.

By the way, what is your Web Site address on the World Wide Web?

It is: http://www.steelguitar.com

And, what is your E-Mail Address?

It is: psgbuilder@steelguitar.com

How is your relationship with the competition?

(Bud) I view it as a fellowship rather than competition. I talk to most all the other builders at shows and know most of them personally. We share ideas. I'm the same way. We're all friends; and we are each trying to produce the best pedal steel guitar available. (John) We actually sometimes get together to combine parts orders for larger quantities and lower costs. This helps everybody on the final cost of a new steel guitar.

Do you have anything else you want to tell people out there?

Well, we have a new telephone Area Code. Our Talk line is now: 1 (972) 288-9100. And our Fax line is: 1 (972) 288-9169. Of course, we still have the same 800 toll-free Order Line that we always had.

What is the "Carter Demo" Videotape we've been hearing about?

Well, we are still developing the Video and it is meant to be a useful purchasing tool for our customers. Since it assumes that you have already read our Color Brochure and Price List, it does not discuss all of the same details that our literature does. It is a professionally-produced Videotape with close-up camera shots of the Carter. Jeff Newman has been gracious enough to make this product information videotape for us. The underside and most of the other details are shown with long, slow camera shots. It really gives a person seriously considering purchasing a Carter the chance to examine it at their leisure ... and to hear the sound and tone of the Carter for themselves ... (while our Color Brochure gives a number of the other specifics and details about Weight, Pickups, Design, Features, our Models, Standard Colors, Lacquer Finishes, our 30-Day Shipping Guarantee, and the Charge Cards we accept). So, when combined together with our Brochure and Price List, the Videotape provides the "rest of the story" to a prospective Carter purchaser.

What songs are on the "Carter Demo" Videotape and how much does it cost?

Let's see: although it is definitely not meant to be an instructional video, you do see Jeff Newman close-up as he plays "Canadian Sunset ". And, then you can look at and examine nearly every detail of the Carter close-up, while Jeff plays in the background: "Moonglow ", "Picnic ", "Look at Us ", and an "unnamed original" by Jeff. The Video currently costs $20, including U.S. First -Class and international Air-Mail shipping.

Does the VHS tape come in all the popular formats?

Well, right now, it only comes in VHS tapes using NTSC format, which is the format used in the U.S., as well as other countries. Also, we understand that many international players have dual-VCR's where they can play NTSC just like U.S. VCR's do. However, we do hope to have PAL and possibly SECAM available, as well ... these formats, if we do them, probably will cost more than $20 ... we'll see. And, a nice feature for the purchaser: the $20 paid to us for the "Carter Demo " Video is fully refunded if the purchaser returns the Video to us within 60 days in usable condition.

Lastly, do you have a Company Motto?

Yes: "Our customers are the most important part of our Company ." We strive to remember that always. We do not just build guitars. I'd like to stress that we do everything possible to satisfy our customers. This may sound a bit funny ... we like to think that we make steel players' dreams come true. We have organized our Company so that we are able to produce on demand with consistency in pricing, manufacturing quality, sound, tone, and after-sales service.

Reprinted with Permission from Steel Guitar World Magazine
Volume 5, Issue 30, 1996

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